INTERVIEW WITH AN EX-VAMPIRE
A TRUE STORY
Stephanie: Hi Bill, welcome to Florida.
Bill: Thanks, it’s great to be here.
S: First please say a prayer to protect us and all of our viewers from any reaction we might have from the information we are about to hear and from any spiritual attack.
Bill: Okay sure……..Abba Father we come to you right now and we ask your protection over us and over anybody who might be watching this video.
We pray that you would protect us from any kind of danger, any kind of attack.
We pray also that the spirit of truth would prevail through all of this.
We also ask that no one will be triggered by anything that is being said here but rather that the spirit of peace would come through and we just ask for all attacks of the enemy to be bound right now in the name of Yahushua ha Mashiach, Jesus Christ, and in his name we pray, amen.
S: Alright, before we go into any detail what is the chronological order of all the groups and practices you did?
Bill: Well basically to start out with I was raised Catholic – Catholic grade school, high school, the whole bit, went to a Catholic college.
While I was there I was introduced to the occult and witchcraft by some of my professors and fellow students. I got into white witchcraft while I was in college, became a Witch Priest before I graduated, and then once I was out in the world I met my wife.
We became a High Priest and a High Priestess together and started covens up and down Lake Michigan and also in Iowa.
Then we basically went on and got involved in Ceremonial Magick and I got involved originally in Free Masonry, went through the degrees, became a Master Mason, and at that point, more or less at the same time I also got involved with the Church of Satan for reasons that we’ll probably explore later on.
Then I got involved in higher levels of Masonry – it’s called Esoteric Masonry.
At that point I had to sell my soul to the Devil.
Then finally as we were kind of going down, circling the drain so to speak spiritually because hard core Satanism, Black Magick and all of that – I was also – at a certain point I had to go through an initiatory experience and become involved with Vampirism and then at that point where I was really at the deepest, darkest, part of my life, a lady had sent a check – I’d sent a check rather – to the Church of Satan, and the lady had sent the check back to me, you know, cancelled check, and apparently she was a Christian Bank Officer out there in San Francisco.
But it’s because she had written on the check, “I’ll be praying for you in the name of Jesus”.
And that started a cascade of events, which first of all bounced me into the Mormon Church for five years, which I thought at the time was a Christian Church.
But then the Almighty used Mormonism to help me come to a saving knowledge of the true gospel, the true Jesus Christ, Yahushua, and at that point I got born again and that was in 1984.
So that’s the short version.
S: Wow, thank you. Did anything happen in your childhood to influence you to go into a certain direction?
Bill: Well I had really good parents, you know, no issues there.
But I had some experiences, probably the most prominent one of which was – like most kids my age – I was born in 1949 – we went out trick or treating every year and that was a big, fun, thing to do and nothing really was thought of it as being bad.
And one year I was out – I was probably 8 or 9 years old and I was walking down the street with my buddy ‘trick or treating’ from door to door and all of sudden, I just felt like looking up in the sky because it was a beautiful October night.
And as I looked up in the sky it seemed like instead of the stars being there the sky was utterly black and then gradually emerging from the blackness were these thousands of leathery creatures.
It looked kind of like, if you’ve ever been inside of a cave that was full of bats, that’s what it looked like.
And all of these things had little ruby red eyes just blazed out at me.
And I’m standing down here on the sidewalk and I just felt this thrill of evil go through me, like their eyes pierced my very soul.
Then my friend who’d kept on walking, he says, “Hey Bill, what’s going on, come on”. You know – wanted to get more candy.
And I looked at him and I looked back up at the sky and it was a normal evening sky again.
But I think at that moment I was touched by the spirit of evil and from that time on I began to get more and more – I became fascinated with, like, haunted houses and ESP and UFO’s and all of these kinds of things which in those days were very fringe and very weird but that I was really interested in and that kind of started everything up.
S: Wow. Do you have any idea why you had that experience and lots of other people haven’t had an experience like that?
Bill: Well, I mean I can only speculate but I think part of it was, as I said, in those days nobody really thought of it being an issue to go and so to speak, celebrate an occult holiday like that.
My parents didn’t pray over me.
They didn’t, you know, say “Bless you” or anything.
They just sent me out and I think I was basically walking around in a basically spiritually naked state.
You know, I had no protection.
And I think there may have been things in my background or whatever that predisposed me to that.
But I may have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time, you know.
S: I see, thank you. And what happened when you were about twelve years old in the north woods in Wisconsin.
Bill: Well, every other summer my folks liked to go up to Rhinelander Wisconsin, which is a beautiful area with lots of lakes and everything.
And one night they’d gone somewhere and I was alone and we had a cabin right down by this lake and it was a beautiful night again and I was just sitting out on the dock enjoying the night, and all of a sudden – it was the strangest thing.
First of all I heard this wind like a mighty wind, but the trees didn’t move.
Then that ceased.
And then the trees started to move and sway back and forth pretty violently but there was no wind.
And the hair kind of stood up on the back of my neck at that point because this is like, this is really strange.
And all of a sudden I saw this blackness rise over the horizon.
I could see all the way across the lake.
It was like this vast head came up that blotted out the stars.
And it rose and rose and finally I could see it was a giant human body that literally bestrode the vault of the heavens.
And everything stopped.
I mean, all of the night creatures stopped.
I mean you could hear no frogs, no crickets, no nothing.
And I could see these legs go right over me.
And then the other leg went.
And for a moment you could not even see the stars in the sky.
And then as soon as the second leg, so to speak, passed out of sight – and I kind of tried to watch – but there was a kind of a hill up behind me and trees and so it was basically out of my sight.
at that moment, everything returned to normal.
Except my heart was just pounding and I couldn’t even imagine what I had seen.
I was only twelve years old and it was like this great, awesome dark thing.
S: Wow, did you ever work out later what that was you saw?
Bill: Well yes after several years later we learned it was constant and sort of notable for having a lot of strange things going on especially in the north half of the state and there’s what’s called the Great Old One who’s called Ithaqua or the Windwalker, the Windigo and I believe that I was ‘blessed’ with having a visit from him that night.
S: Wow. Did anything ever happen to you while you were a teenager to get you interested in the occult?
Bill : Well, that probably was the big thing.
As I said I started getting intrigued by things like haunted houses and when we would go on vacation, trips around the country, I would always make my dad take side trips where I knew there was a haunted house.
And we had this one house in our community where it was the strangest thing.
It was what we would call this poltergeist type thing and one of the girls in our school lived there and once in a while these ghosts would have knife fights in the kitchen.
Now it sounds really funny but they would come down in the morning for breakfast and it was like every knife – you know everyone has these little steak knives and kitchen knives sitting out to use – and every knife would be buried in the cabinetry.
Just like these two spirits went “foink, foink, foink” like that.
And there was no explanation for it.
The doors were locked.
There was no sign of breaking and entering.
I kept getting exposed to these weird little things.
I mean nothing really spectacular – I suppose somebody would think that having a knife fight by two invisible ghosts in your kitchen is pretty spectacular – but it was just kind of a cumulative thing I got.
And you see that’s the interesting thing, is that the great Christian writer C.S. Lewis has said that the occult awakens within you a spiritual kind of lust that’s very akin to physical lust.
And once your exposed to it, once that’s awakened it, it like creates this itch for more and more and it’s very hard to get rid of that itch once you’ve gotten it.
And of course I was just a young person and I wasn’t even prepared for that kind of thing.
S: I see, thank you. Have you ever done a seance?
Bill: Oh yes. What happened was when I got to college as I mentioned earlier we had a professor in Theology who told us that Yahushua, Jesus, had been a magician.
And the way he did things, walk on water, turn water into wine was that he had gone and studied in the East with Tibetan Masters or Indian Gurus or gone to Egypt and studied with a Maji or whatever, you know.
So he said that if we wanted to be like Christ – and see that’s a doctrine in the Catholic Church is that the priest is another Christ – and so therefore, he said if you want to be like Christ, if you want to be a good priest you should study the occult.
So I kind of started reading some books and I was very intrigued by it.
I had read about ESP and read like Hans Holser’s book on ghostbusters and things like that.
And so this one older classmate of mine – it was Halloween night and I’d been involved in a play – you know, helping out with the music.
And he said, “Well it’s Halloween night, let’s do a séance”.
And he had heard that this very important guy who’d given all sorts of money to this college had arranged for his deceased wife to be buried in the basement of the chapel.
You know they used to do that in Europe, you know, bury important people under the chapel.
I was music major, I was also working as a music librarian so I had the keys to get in after hours.
So we all went in and there’s like this long corridor and at the end of the corridor were these huge oak doors.
And right there, was the lady buried behind those doors – in a big you know, sarcophacus.
And so we all sat down cross legged on the floor and we held our hands.
I won’t say the lady’s name, but we called out her name.
You know, “Oooohhh, come and visit us”, you know the usual hokey adolescent thing.
And here’s the weird thing is that it was utterly black in this room because it was a basement.
And once we turned off the light I mean you could not see your hand in front of your face.
And we were sitting along this wall in kind of an oval.
None of us were near the door – the doors to the tomb.
And after about 2 or 3 minutes of this guy you know, caterwauling and trying to make the person appear, nothing every appeared, but all of a sudden the doors started to rattle like this – “Boom Boom boom” – Kind of like someone was on the other side of the doors trying to get out.
And every one of us just lost it.
I mean, you know we just ran out of that room as fast as …..like the devil was after us which of course in a sense he was.
And that was the beginning of a story I probably don’t have time to go into on this thing, but where because we raised so to speak that ghost it hung around there and haunted the place for like two years and scared the living daylights out of people.
It would do things like play the piano and you would open the practice room door and there would be no pianist in the room.
Or it would actually throw people around.
It would beat people up.
It would cause music to appear on recording tapes unbidden.
All kinds of weird stuff, so yes, I’ve had my share of that.
S: Wow. Thanks, we have got a bit of extra time.
What’s that story you said you’d like to tell?
Bill: Well, basically – the interesting thing is that at one point in our part of the country, which is Iowa we have a lot of tornados and because of my position of responsibility – I was called the band librarian – I was kind of supposed to watch over the music department.
And one night we had a tornado warning and a tornado came nearby and knocked out all the power in Dubuque.
And so the Dean of Men called me in and said, “You go down there and watch the doors of the music department so nobody breaks in and vandalizes something” or whatever.
So I went down there with my buddy and we stood there, and all of a sudden – we heard this organ playing inside of the music department.
It was locked.
And it was playing this same eerie song that we’d come to associate that with this woman and the Dean of Men came along with a flashlight after about five minutes of hearing this music.
He says “Who’s in there playing that music?”
And we said, “Well, as far as we know, nobody”.
And he said, “Well this isn’t right. I’m going to go in and investigate”.
We said, “Sir, it’s an electric organ …. and there’s no power”.
Bill: And he said, “I don’t care, I’m going in there”.
So he had his key out and he opened the door.
He had one of these big plastic flashlights.
And he walked in.
And as soon as he walked through the door the flashlight detonated in his hand.
It just blew up.
There wasn’t anything left of it.
He just walked back out, locked the door and went away.
He didn’t want anything to do with it.
So the ultimate thing was that anybody that went in that music department it seemed would get beat up in some way or have some violent thing happen to them and it even happened to me once.
One time I was in there after dark and I was doing some business for the college.
And I left and turned all the lights off and went back in to get something that I’d forgotten.
And I felt something grab me on my ankle, like actually on my calf, my left calf.
That was just like a searing red hot hand.
And it was blinding pain all up and down my leg.
The funny thing was after I got home there was actually a first degree burn there in the shape of a human hand – a woman’s hand.
And for years – and my wife will confirm this – no hair would grow on that area – you know, men have hair on their legs.
So anyway it was really strange.
So finally we decided we’ve got to do something, you know, we started this –
Unfortunately the guy that had run the original seance had graduated.
So by this time I’d kind of read up on the occult and I got this book called the Greater Key of Solomon. which is a black magick –
No it’s really a white magic grimoire.
And it had an exorcism ritual in there.
And so I thought, “Well okay, I’m going to go do this”.
And I went in and a friend taught me how to use a credit card to slip the lock.
So I went into the music department and I slipped the lock on the tomb.
And this is so strange because all of my friends, in fact like 20 or 30 people on campus, were all waiting for Bill Schnoebelen to get creamed.
Because I was actually walking into the tomb – you know at night, in the dark, it was like – we didn’t know what was going to happen.
And so I went up and I stood on the tomb because it was like two feet off the ground, big marble slab.
And I read this ritual of exorcism and you know it was weird because it had all these Jewish names and you’re commanding the spirits to leave in the name of Adonai, in the name of Agla, in the name of Tetragrammaton and whatever and nothing happened.
And all my friends were disappointed – you know, they thought they were going to see some fireworks.
But the funny thing was is after I did that nothing else ever happened in that school.
Bill: Well…. But the problem was, is see that taught me a false lesson.
That taught me that magick was efficacious.
It taught me that the occult could work power.
It could have power over the dead, over the spirit world, whatever.
And that was actually a fraudulent lesson.
Bill: But see that’s how the devil does things.
He will get you to think you have power over the occult realms, through rituals, through ceremony, through these various books or whatever.
And actually it’s a fraud.
Because really we have, without Yahushua, we have no power over evil whatsoever.
S: Alright thank you. So when you got involved in all those different groups, what were your goals at the time?
Bill: Well part of it was because of what this professor had told me I was under the rather mistaken impression, that I would become more like Christ, by studying the occult.
And so at first, it was like a noble, spiritual quest.
And I began primarily I think my motivation was knowledge – the whole idea and again this goes back the word ‘occult’ means hidden.
Because there’s a term even used in medicine.
They say if you have blood in your stool that can’t be seen it’s occult blood.
Anything that’s hidden is occult.
So hidden knowledge is always seductive.
Everybody wants to know the mystery, you know.
And that was partly what I wanted.
I knew there was more out there than met the eye in my kind of banal Catholic upbringing.
And I wanted to know more about the spiritual realm.
Bill: I wasn’t really in it for power. That came later.
S: I see.
Bill: I was in it to get the higher wisdom, you know.
S: Did you ultimately want to be good and help people?
Bill: At that time yes, very much so.
I thought I was going to be a priest.
And I was going to, you know, bless people, and do all of this stuff.
And really for a large part once I got into the full blown occult / witchcraft part of my life, we were very altruistic.
We were healers. We were working to help people.
It was only towards the end that the corrupting influence of the occult started really corroding my very soul.
S: Okay, thank you. How many years were you involved in Wicca?
Bill: Well, let me think, probably around sixteen years.
Because I was first initiated in ’68.
When I got born again and I left it was 1994.
So I think that comes out to around 16 years.
S: Okay. How deep was your involvement with Wicca at that time?
Bill: Well, pretty deep.
I mean, I started out of course, you begin you study, you read books and you get initiated to the first degree.
Ultimately from ‘68 and finally in ‘73 I was made a witch high priest and along with my wife who at the same time was made a witch high priestess. And we were pretty deep into it.
I mean I had a more than three thousand book library of occult books.
Bill: And we taught classes.
I was a certified astrologer.
I did tarot readings.
I was also trained as a medium – what today is called like a trance channeller.
We did psychic readings.
We practiced ceremonial magick.
I mean talk about ‘Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt”, well that was me.
Both of us were just, very, very – we’re kind of workaholics.
We’re kind of compulsive over achievers.
And so when we got into this …I mean there were days, even though I had a full time job where I would spend like three hours a day, before I went to work, practicing doing conjurations, doing incantations, stuff like that to try to raise levels you know of occult power or supposedly improve the world or whatever, you know.
So we were very deeply committed.
S: I see. What was your normal job?
Bill: Well I had several of them.
Believe it or not once I got out of college for a couple of years I was a music teacher in a Catholic school because that was my degree.
But I think they got a little tired of me walking around with a pentagram around my neck and you know, so they let me go.
Then I had numerous, basically menial jobs until really after I got saved – I never really had a really super-duper job.
I worked in a foundry for a while.
I was a security guard.
I worked for the Milwaukee Sentinel because at this time we were living in Milwaukee, as a person that went around and filled up the boxes at night, you know with the newspapers.
So that was basically my wonderful career.
S: Okay, thank you. What’s the difference between Wicca, Witchcraft and Magick?
Bill: Well Wicca, it’s actually pronounced “Witch-a” really.
It’s the old Anglo Saxon word that means bent or twisted, originally.
But it’s the origin of our word witch.
And so back in the 50’s when witches started coming out of the broom closet – pardon the pun – they started calling themselves Wiccans, because it sounded better than calling themselves witches.
Because witches had a really bad press back then.
Everybody thought that witches were ugly old hags with green skin and warts and everything.
Witchcraft is what a lot of witches do.
But not by means all of them, because Wicca is actually a religion.
Witchcraft is a technology.
It’s a mental, spiritual technology that some witches use – most witches I dare say.
But witchcraft is more or less the same thing as magick, except magick is higher, if you will.
There is what’s called low magick and what is called high magick and typically most witchcraft is low magick.
It’s kind of like in the Church of England where they talk about low church and high church.
And the high church is more ceremonial and the low church is more simple and almost like protestant.
Well it’s the same thing with this.
The low magick, which is witchcraft, is usually pretty simple – more akin to what anthropologists would call folk magick.
Whereas magick is more like ceremonies and wearing fancy robes and very, very elaborate – you know – things where you have to be very literate, you have to read Latin and Greek and all that kind of stuff.
So there’s a big difference there.
The technical definition of magjck which was made by the infamous magician Allister Crowley, he said, “Magick is the art of causing change to occur in conformity with will”.
But I would add to that, because that’s a little simplistic, I would add to that “Without any visible means of doing so”.
In other words I could move a pencil across a table and I’ve caused change to occur in conformity with will, but that isn’t really magick,
If I could move that pencil without touching it, that would be magick.
S: Okay, how are you spelling magick?
Bill: Well most ceremonial, serious magicians spell magick the old English way with a K on the end M-A-G-I-C-K to distinguish it from stage magic – prestidigitation.
For instance, pulling rabbits out of hats.
S: Okay thanks, so a lot of people believe that the power of witchcraft is imaginary.
What do you say about that?
Bill: Well in a sense they’re right.
Witchcraft as power as they’re thinking of it is imaginary.
But instead of – the witches believe magick comes within them or that it comes from being at one with the earth, and at one with the sky in this kind of pantheistic thing where, you know, kind of like ‘The Force’ in the movie Star Wars.
But actually there is a real power in witchcraft.
But the power comes from the demonic realm.
If you say, if you give yourself over to these gods, these ancient gods, and say “I’m going to serve you”, what they don’t realize is that behind those gods – those gods are a mask – and behind those masks is the demonic – ultimately Satan himself.
And so when you do something magical – I did many things that were apparently at least a very vast coincidence at least, if not down right miraculous at most, and they were done by the power of demons.
S: Okay, and how do you know that? Because a lot of people who are maybe into witchcraft are going to say, “Well, that’s not true”.
Bill: Well let me give you an illustration.
A friend of mine, a colleague in the ministry was on a radio show.
And he was talking about this very subject.
And a witch high priest called up and challenged him with the very question you asked.
He said, “Well, I don’t believe my powers come from demons.
I believe my powers come from the Sky God and the Mother Goddess”.
And my friend said, “Okay, here’s what I’m going to do.
I’m going to pray right now in the name of Yahushua, Jesus Christ, that all the demons within you that give you the power to do these things will be bound for one week until you come to your senses.
And he prayed that prayer right over the air and the guy just got mad and hung up.
Some days later the guy called the show.
My friend wasn’t even there and the guy was frantic because he had nowhere else to call and he says,
“I don’t have my occult power anymore.
It’s been gone from the day the other fellow prayed that prayer”.
He was into power.
And he said, “Obviously your God has more power than my god and I want that power”.
Now that’s not the best reason to become a Christian but you know it was a start.
And the guy ended up getting saved and he was one of the most prominent witch high priests in the greater Seattle area.
S: Wow, great story.
Bill: That kind of illustrates the point and I could tell you several other stories of a similar nature.
S: Okay, tell us one more.
Bill: Well okay. This is on a slightly different tack.
But I’m sure many people know about the almost supernatural powers that are supposedly are possessed by high level Kung-Fu masters –
That they can punch at a wall and not even touch it and have the wall collapse or make people fall down just by giving their Ke-i type shout at the person or whatever.
Well one time another colleague of mine who is a minister in Wyoming, his meeting was disrupted by this local guy who was this really high level Showlin Master, and he came in and he challenged the guy right there on the spot and wanted to fight him.
He says, “You claim you worship this great mighty God. Well, you know, take me on”.
So the guy just prayed in the name of Yahushua, and he said, “You will not be able to move until I allow you to, by the power of the blood of Yahushua”.
And the guy fell flat on his face before the alter, just spread-eagled.
And it was like the gravity around him had became like the gravity of Jupiter.
And the guy was just pinned to the floor like there was a magnet there and he laid there for, like, ten minutes.
Bill: And he finally started pleading with the guy to let him up.
You know the guy was a nice guy and he asked the Lord to let him up and he was fine.
And then he repented and went to the alter and got saved.
So you know again that shows that what a lot of people think is power that comes from within or power that comes from the universe is actually occult power.
S: Okay, great thank you for those stories.
A lot of people think that witchcraft is very rare.
What would you say about that, from your own experience?
Bill: Well again I would say to a degree that’s true.
There are a lot of witches, but most of those witches don’t know what they’re doing.
They don’t really have a lot of occult power.
They’re basically playing around.
It’s still dangerous because they’ve turned their back on the living Elohim, the living God and they’re worshipping false gods.
But even in my own life as a witch I had in sixteen years of practicing the occult maybe a half dozen times in that life when I did something really astounding.
There were a lot of times when we would do magick and nothing would happen – quite a lot in fact.
But every now and then the Devil would throw us a bone.
And I remember years ago we had seen this movie ‘Little Big Man’ with Dustin Hoffman.
There’s this old native American Indian chief in it.
And he was supposed to go up on top of a mountain and die, and do magick so he would die, and nothing happened.
And he walked on down and said, “Uhh, sometimes the magick works and sometimes it doesn’t”.
And so that became kind of like our tag line, “Oh well, sometimes the magick works, sometimes it doesn’t” .
So it’s not like there are all these witches running around doing all these wonderful miraculous things.
It’s a comparative rarity.
But there are literally tens of thousands of witches in America – probably hundreds of thousands by now.
It was very rare when we got into it back in the late ‘60s.
But now, I mean, you can go into any occult bookstore and even any regular bookstore and find like, twenty-five, thirty books on how to be a witch.
S: Wow. Thank you. Would you please share with us the story about the man who got attacked by a demon in his garage when he tried to call him up.
B: Well, this is ceremonial magick now, which is like high-art, high-church, high-theatre.
But the idea is you lay down this special circle on the floor with chalk and sulphur and various other things depending on what ritual you are doing.
And then you stay in the circle as the magician and outside the circle you set up what is called a triangle of manifestation on the floor.
And you call up some powerful demon spirit to come and serve you.
Supposedly as long as you are in this circle, he can’t hurt you.
That’s “The rules”.
And so this guy was calling up the demon that Aleister Crowley called ‘The Mighty Demon, Choronzon’.
This is one of the mightiest and most feared of all demons on earth.
And he was calling this demon up and it took, like, hours and hours –
these incantations, and vile smelling incenses filling this garage.
And he’d basically turned it into a ceremonial temple.
And, you know, all of a sudden the demon started to manifest.
And you could see this just awful looking thing that is indescribable.
And he started to command it.
Because the idea is that you command this demon that he will have to obey you from then on, like a Genie.
S: How would the room, did the demon just appear like as a ghost in the room, or what?
B: No. It was like, this big sort-of slimy, tentacled, you know, amorphous … really, not easy to describe.
You know, very pustulant and tentacles and slithery and, you know, not at all anthropomorphic.
And he was exerting his force on this demon and the thing was reaching a crescendo.
The magic circle was actually glowing, it was so powerful.
And I know this is true because I’m the one who was sitting there keeping track of all this, as a scribe.
Because every ceremonial magician has a little, lowly peon flunky to write everything down.
B: Kind of like a scribe.
S: So, this demon, like how big was it?
B: It towered to the very roof of the garage.
And, all of a sudden …I was sitting in what they call a ‘neutral triangle’ so the demon didn’t mess with me.
S: And was it like solid, or could you sort of see through it?
B: It was sort of amorphous.
But you see the ideal is that the more incense you burn and the more blood you shed the demon draws substance from this.
This is what is called the material basis in ceremonial magick.
So the more incense the guy burned, the more easily you could see the demon.
Well finally, just when this thing is reaching a crescendo, all of a sudden the phone rang.
And the guy reached out of the circle to answer the phone and INSTANTLY the circle vanished.
And HE vanished.
Just in a flash of sulfur.
And the funny thing was there was no phone in the room.
B: That’s how tricky these demons can be.
And I went in and I told the guys wife … err … widow.
And you know she was also into this.
She was a witch and a sorceress.
And she was just sort of philosophical about it.
You know – “Oh well, it happens”.
Obviously she was very upset.
But what can you … you can’t call the police and say a demon kidnapped my husband and carried him into the abyss.
You know, they don’t really have jurisdiction there.
So that illustrates, even though people think this is either fun stuff like the book “Harry Potter” or it’s like, just not even real, it can be very real.
Now, I’m not saying that happens every week, that kind of thing, it probably doesn’t.
But this guy was a very high level ceremonial magician and yet he was still able to be tricked by the demon.
S: Now, what’s the definition of a ceremonial magician?
B: Well, that’s like, ceremonial magick is the highest form of magick.
And it’s where you have to learn long, elaborate rituals.
We did one ritual called “The sacred magick of Abramelin the Mage” that took six months of preparation.
B: Every day you have to go through purifications and many of your viewers probably have heard the magic word ‘Abracadabra’.
B: Well, that came, that’s a word on a magick square from “The sacred magick of Abramelin the Mage”.
And they usually involve robes and incense and you have to wear certain colored robes and have certain colored candles and you have to have wands and swords and all kinds of stuff.
It’s very – It’s not something that a person who did not have a lot of money would want to do.
And usually it involves either invocation or evocation.
Invocation is where you believe you are calling on something higher than yourself like an angelic being.
These people believe that they can call upon angels and command them.
Which of course is horse puckey, but that’s what they believe.
Now an evocation is where magicians call on something that is lower than a human being, like a demon, an elemental, an elementary or something like that and then command them to serve them.
That particular book that I was talking gave examples of all these talismans. You would buy parchment and draw magick squares that had numbers or letters in them.
These would include talismans to find treasure, talismans to have a woman fall in love with you or talismans to enable you to fly through the air.
And you would get conversation and knowledge with your ‘H.G.A.’ – your ‘Holy Guardian Angel’.
That was the ultimate goal of this.
And the Holy Guardian Angel would touch these different talismans and empower them so that you could find treasure or fly or whatever it happened to be.
So we went through all of this stuff – just months of it.
And we did the ritual and then of course we had all of these talismans and none of them worked.
S: Okay. Hey? Does that mean that there is something wrong with Guardian Angels?
B: No. There’s nothing wrong with Guardian Angels.
This is just a construct, that they kind of –
because you’ve got to realize, these people that came up with this stuff in the middle ages –
that’s where most ceremonial magick originated was between the 1200s, 1300s, 1400s and 1500s –
they lived in fear of their lives because if they were found the Catholic Church which was really the only church in those days would burn them at the stake.
And so they made their ‘stuff’ sound very Christian.
B: Things like, biblical, I mean if you were to read some of these things you would think you were reading … like, there might be psalms, there might be long passages where the person is addressed by the name of God like Yahweh, or Elohim or Adonai or something. Or whatever.
And so they were made to appear to be very holy and very sanctimonious.
And they were often written in Latin which of course was the sacred language.
So the problem is that they did that to mask the fact that they were actually trafficking with dark forces.
S: Well, sometimes we have, like, politicians will say a prayer to God.
So that means they could be praying to someone else.
How would you tell the difference?
B: Well, only Yahweh God knows a man’s heart or a woman’s heart.
So, if he is saying a prayer, we don’t know if he is really praying to the true God or not.
Because really – you know – this may surprise some of your viewers but the name of God is not God.
That’s not his name.
That’s actually the name of an ancient Sumerian ‘little-g’ god of fortune, or good luck.
The name of the true and living deity is Yahweh.
And, you know, his son of course is Jesus, Yahushua.
So if you pray in those names, you may or not be a genuine believer.
Only the Almighty knows that.
We are told not to judge people’s hearts, but only to judge their fruits.
You know, if there’s someone who says, “Well, I’m a Christian politician” and all this stuff.
And then he’s going out there and doing all this reprehensible stuff, then you know he’s probably …
You now, you’ve got to kind of be a fruit inspector.
S: I see. Okay.
Can you tell us some more stories that show witchcraft has some power?
B: One example – There’s a law within the witch’s – the witch’s have their own kind of bible.
It’s called the “Book of Shadows”.
And basically one of the rules in it is the law of three-fold return.
If you do something good to someone you are supposed to get it back three times better.
If you do something nasty to another person you get it back three times worse.
Well, way back in the very earliest days of my being a witch – I was just a little baby witch –
I had this other – not my wife, I hadn’t even met my wife yet – I had this other girl who was working as a sort of substitute priestess.
And I bought her a set of what are called ‘bigghes’ which is the word for the witch jewels.
And it’s like a special necklace, and crown and all that.
And they are very sacred.
Kind of like, it’s sort of like a bargain basement version of the Crown Jewels in the Tower of London, if you will.
Because every head of a coven is actually a queen, she’s a witch queen.
And anyhow, this girl had a friend who was not a really very good friend.
And she came in and while the girl wasn’t looking she stole those things and pawned them – those jewels.
They weren’t even very expensive.
But it was the idea that this girl stole something from a goddess.
Well, because of this law of three-fold return within 24 hours this young lady who was only like 19 or 20 years old fell down two flights of stairs, broke her back and was paralyzed from the waist down – as far as I know to this day.
That’s not obviously a very good thing.
We also, on numerous occasions we did spells of healing.
One time a lady in our coven, her husband was having a problem with his … what they call erectile dysfunction.
And we did a spell of love and it healed that.
So, you know, again there is real stuff happening here.
But it’s powered by the demonic.
S: Thanks. And what might be the downside to those people?
I mean, something good happened. But what’s going to be the downside down the track?
B: Well, again, the Devil never gives you anything without taking something greater away from you.
That’s the danger, and so the downside is that all these people got more faith in the gods of Wicca and less faith in the true God of the Bible.
That’s the main downside.
They were more and more deeply deceived.
Now here is the funny thing – you should ask that.
Without saying any names, this fellow who had the problem, once that spell was done, within about a year and a half he was running around cheating on his wife.
B: His wife didn’t know about it.
And he ended up – and she was the sweetest young lady – he finally ended up divorcing her and marrying some, like, 17 year old chick who was 10 years younger than his wife.
Kind of the typical… It was like he was having a mid-life crisis and he wasn’t even 29 years old.
So, that’s an interesting illustration of how this kind of thing can backfire on you.
When you end up with a sort of case of permanent priapism.
S: Thank you. Can you tell us another story to show how the power of Jesus is greater than even all these other powers.
B: Well, when I had gone on – we are kind of getting ahead of ourselves here – several years after this time I had gotten involved in Satanism.
And I met a guy who was one of the highest ranking Satanists in the whole mid West.
And he was teaching me.
And an interesting thing happened.
A guy came and paid this fellow I think it was $500 to kill his ex-wife by a magickal curse.
In other words, he put out a psychic hit on his ex-wife, because he wanted custody of the kids –
Not a very nice guy.
And he paid us this money and he had this fellow ask me to help out with the curse.
And so we got out and we started doing curses.
Nothing worked. Nothing.
In fact, we even did what is called in what is called in Voodoo, “A grand voutremont”.
Which is one of the great, most powerful curses you can level against someone.
The only thing that happened was that on numerous occasions these demonic forces that we would send against this woman would come back and beat the tar out of us.
It was like they would carom back and we’d get hit with horrible things, like asthma attacks and seizures and whatever.
And later on I found out that this guy that had made the contract, he was the son of a preacher.
And his ex-wife was a Christian.
Now obviously this guy wasn’t much of a Christian but his ex-wife was still walking with the Lord.
And she was protected by the Blood.
And so everything we threw at her just bounced right back.
Just no matter what we did, it just did not work.
And of course, since we got saved, we’ve got so many people mad at us – we’ve got the Mormons mad at us, the Masons mad at us, the witches mad at us, the Satanists mad at us – we’ve got so many people cursing us, we have to kind of keep a phone book full.
And yet, 99% of this stuff, never gets through, because we are protected.
You know, it’s kind of funny – the Hebrew word for ‘blood’ is ‘dohm’.
And I tell people we are under the dome.
B: It’s kind of like a force field that surrounds us that protects us by the power of the living God.
S: Great. What can you say about ‘the light’?
Since so many people think if there is a demon or a bad thing, that they will just send it to ‘the light’ and that solves all problems.
B: Well, we were taught that as spiritualist mediums, because both my wife and I were ordained as spiritualist ministers and mediums –
“Oh – if you see a spirit coming in, you just say – “Do you stand in the light” ?”
Or, like you said, if it’s bad, “I just send it to the light”.
Well, people forget that light is like ….It’s neutral.
I mean, in Lucifer himself, the name means “light bearer’.
He is called “An angel of light” in Paul’s epistle to the Corinthians.
So, light in and of itself … there could be a false light.
And that’s the problem.
I know, when I went through the Luciferian initiation – we’re getting ahead of ourselves here – but it was like this searing blinding light came into my brain.
Just like someone pouring molten light, molten lava into my mind.
And it blinded me – I mean, even though I had my eyes closed the light was so bright it was like the incandescent light of a thousand suns.
And that was my “Illumination”.
That was my “enlightenment”, with the light of Lucifer.
So I had all the light you could possibly want.
I felt like my brain had a sun-tan by the time we were done.
But, I knew nothing.
I was in spiritual darkness.
So sometimes, you know, the illusion of light is actually the deepest sort of darkness.
It’s much more efficacious to challenge an evil spirit in the name of Yahushua, Jesus Christ, and command it to obey and to ask “Do you serve the Living God, Yahweh, Elohim, King of the Universe?”
And of course they have to say, “No, I don’t”.
B: And then you just send them on their way.
S: Do they have love in witchcraft?
B: Pardon me?
S: Love. Is that … ?
B: Oh, well, yes. I mean, witches are … There is an old wives tale that says that witches cannot love and they cannot cry.
But that’s not really true.
Witches are just normal people.
They are just as normal as Methodists and Baptists and Hare Krishnas and Buddhists.
So, they can love.
They may not be able to have the kind of unselfish agape love that Christians have, but they can love.
I mean, I love my wife very deeply.
I love her a bazillion times more now.
And I know many people who were, you know, very much in love.
But I will also tell you this –
Wicca is very hard on marriages.
We performed quite a few hand-fastenings which is the name for a witch wedding.
And had many people who were married even before they joined our covens.
And not one of those marriages survived, except ours.
All of the rest of the marriages ended up in divorce.
S: I see.
B: Which is much higher than the national average.
S: Right. You make the comment in one of your books that a lot of people go to Wicca because they are sick of organized religion.
Does Wicca have any of the problems of organized religion?
B: Well, of course it does because any time you have people, you have problems.
I mean, like the old joke about: “I’m trying to find the perfect church, but if I found the perfect church and joined it, it wouldn’t be perfect anymore because I’d be in it”.
You know, there is no such thing as a perfect anything.
But the difference is that Wicca has only … really Wicca has only been around in any kind of organized way for less than a century.
So it hasn’t had as much time or as much power to mess up the way the Christian church has down through the centuries.
But, yeah, there was back-biting, there was fighting, there were guys cheating on their wives and, you know.
In fact, we had one guy who actually tried to shoot another guy in the coven because he found out that the guy was cheating on his wife.
I mean, they have all the same problems.
It’s just on a smaller scale because there aren’t … like you know …. a coven by law can only be 13 members.
So you can have, like, a church of 500 people, but you can’t have a coven of 500 people.
But even on a microcosmic sense there’s still bickering and backbiting and betrayal and all the same problems.
That’s why many witches now are choosing to be what is called solitaires.
Which means they just practice entirely by themselves.
And it’s easy then, because you have a church of one.
And obviously you can get along and do whatever you want.
But that doesn’t really solve the problem – the person is still lost.
They are still on their way to Hell.
S: What is the history of Wicca?
Because I imagine a lot of people think that it’s an ancient religion.
B: Well, that’s how it’s billed.
They call it “ill vecchio religione” – the old religion.
But actually, even witches that are serious about their scholarship will admit that probably there was no such thing as “the witch cult” as it’s now described, prior to the early part of the 20th century.
In fact, a lot of them will now say that it was probably Gerald Gardner, who was a retired British civil servant, who basically made witchcraft popular in the 1950s.
You see, in Britain, up until 1951 it was a crime to say you were a witch.
It came under the heading of being a scam-artist.
And then they changed the law and made it the “fraudulent mediums act”.
And so for the first time in the history of Britain it was legal to say you were a witch.
And so just a couple of years after that Gerald Gardner came along and wrote a book called “High Magic’s Aid”,
which was a fictional account of a witch coven in the New Forest region of England.
And that was the beginning of the modern witch cult.
And really, most serious witches will tell you, you can’t really find any trace –
Yes, there were witches before the 1900s.-
But they weren’t the kind of witches that these people want to be.
They were basically, either they were casting spells and cursing people and doing all sorts of weird junk, or they were herbalists –
Which is to say, there’s nothing wrong with being a herbalist.
But, you know, they were just weird old women who lived off in the woods and gathered herbs and stuff.
So, really, even though the Public Relations is that witchcraft is very ancient, it might be based on a few concepts that are ancient, but there is no direct lineage, like you know, the Catholic Church claims apostolic succession back to Peter, well there’s no such thing as that in Wicca.
Wicca is basically a made-up religion.
It was made up of out whole cloth in the 30s and 40s.
S: Has it got a connection to druidism?
B: Well, yes, because … although really that even is very tenuous because, see, very few people even know what the druids actually did.
S: That’s true.
B: Because they had no written language.
See, that was one of the weird and wonderful thing about the druids.
They had to memorize everything.
Nothing was written down.
And because of that we have no real record except in the broadest sense of what druids believed.
And actually druids did not believe a lot of things witches believe.
For example, druids did not believe in reincarnation.
They believed in the immortality of the soul but they did not believe in reincarnation.
Most witches believe in reincarnation.
They believed in a trinity.
And they did not believe in a goddess.
A lot of people are astonished at that.
B: So, actually, while a lot of witches will claim, “Oh, we are descended from the druids” and blah, blah, blah, actually a lot of the modern …
like just even in the past 20 or 30 years they are coming up with a lot of new things they’ve uncovered, like burial mounds.
And there is not a lot of evidence that the druids had any kind of matriarchal goddess figures, except in the most rudimentary sense.
S: Thank you. A lot of people in wicca and modern occultism think it’s good to embrace your dark side. Do you think that is a good or bad idea?
B: Well, I don’t think it’s a good idea.
Because the bible tells us that we all have a dark side, we all have a sin nature.
But the problem is, we don’t want to let that out.
We want to ask the Lord to come in and transform that by the power of his love.
I’ll tell you the problem with all this.
It all goes back to Carl Jung.
Jung was a very prominent psychologist, probably the second most influential psychologist of the 20th century, after Freud.
And he had this idea of the collective unconscious.
And the idea that all of us had, like, what he called ‘the shadow’ within ourselves, which is like this dark, slimy, evil part of ourselves that we don’t want to acknowledge.
And Jung taught that part of becoming individuated, which means becoming whole as a person, is embracing that dark side.
And, it’s not a good idea.
You know what happened to Darth Vader in the Star Wars movie.
You don’t want to embrace something that is evil.
I mean, all of us have parts of ourselves that are not good, that we don’t want to acknowledge.
What we need to do is give those to the Almighty and say, “Transform these by the power of the love of the Holy Spirit”.
Not embrace them and say, “Well, it’s okay if I want to nurture my inner child-molester, or my inner mass murderer, or my inner serial killer”.
No. You don’t want to do that.
You want to repent.
You want to get right with the Almighty.
S: Great. Thank you.
From your own experience, if someone thinks they are having bad spells cast on them by someone else, what do you think they should do?
B: Well, first of all if they are not a Christian, they should get Born Again.
But beyond that, assuming they are a Christian –
And we get letters like this just about every day of the week.
Because everybody knows I’m an ex-witch.
And essentially we tell people,
“Well, first of all, be sure you are walking closely with Yahweh God.
Be sure you are not in any kind of sin.
Because typically if you are a faithful believer, and you are under the Blood, nothing was going to touch you.
Unless like you have a rare situation like with Job, you know where Yahweh
basically said to the Devil – “Okay, go ahead and do something, for my greater glory”.
But that is not common.
So, I tell them, first of all be sure your own house is in order.
And second of all, if things are still getting through, then you need to do some aggressive warfare praying.
You need to be sure you are putting on the full armour of God according to Ephesians 6:12 and following.
You need to be sure your land is prayed over, your house is prayed over, that you have consecrated yourself and your family, your kids to the service of Yahweh God and that usually helps, you know, basically wipes out all of that.
B: So that’s the Number One. I mean, there are some rare occasions where it persists beyond that, and then there is more detailed stuff. We go into that in one of our books, “Blood on the Doorpost”.
S: Excellent. Thank you.
Bill Schnoebelen’s Website is www.WithOneAccord.org
Copyright ©: Stephanie Relfe 2014 – 3000
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